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In this Discussion
- Death November 2016
- freddy November 2016
- Loose_Thread November 2016
- ManInTheIvoryTower November 2016
- MirandaJuly November 2016
- swamp_knobbler_mahan November 2016
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Stuff We Never Talk About
I thought this NYT article was interesting, about women talking with their male partners openly, often for the first time, about the sexual harassment and abuse they have experienced in their lives.
Similarly, the reaction to Kelly Oxford's Twitter thread about the first time women experienced abuse or harassment was enlightening: to women because it confirmed their experience, and to men who were shocked and horrified at what they learned. [Guardian article currently down because of DDOS attack. Alternate article here.]
It seems to me that this is an area that we don't talk about because the men in our lives are - for the most part - "good men." But we lose the chance for "good men" to be better allies, champions, peer interventionists, and changemakers if they don't even know what the lived experience is for #yesallwomen.
Similarly, the reaction to Kelly Oxford's Twitter thread about the first time women experienced abuse or harassment was enlightening: to women because it confirmed their experience, and to men who were shocked and horrified at what they learned. [Guardian article currently down because of DDOS attack. Alternate article here.]
It seems to me that this is an area that we don't talk about because the men in our lives are - for the most part - "good men." But we lose the chance for "good men" to be better allies, champions, peer interventionists, and changemakers if they don't even know what the lived experience is for #yesallwomen.
Comments
It's such a personal thing--I mean it really hits close to home. At times I have marveled at the difference between the everyday knowledge of women as of men. It's such a lonely feeling. As a chick sometimes I feel like none of my acuity, wariness, and perpetually lived outrage is being shared in my bf--in their lived, emotional range. But if I am close to a guy who has a clue, they let it be known that they are as disgusted by the everyday obscenities such as this one that I am.
I like to say, "truth is stranger than fiction." We people are doing do more cruel, strange things to each other than is cordial to admit.
It's very awkward to talk to men about. Because you have a grievance that cannot directly be addressed.
After this I started realizing how female leaders frequently have to ratchet up the "niceness" more than you would expect from a man who would give the same corrective feedback. If they don't, they risk running into this weird undercurrent of sexism from a small subset.
In this case the worst offender ended up leaving the company on his own.
EDIT: Oh I forgot about the worst example in my career, a guy was fired for taking pictures with his phone over the cube wall of a younger lady web dev in our group. This was in the day when your flip camera made a loud digital "click" sound so it was odd that he thought he was being sneaky about it.
She told me that she had made a specific effort over the last year to be more direct in her communications, after reading articles like this. She felt that there was a double standard at work, and that a man would not have gotten the same feedback.
I acknowledged that there was some truth to what she said, but also that I still needed her to do it. I sort of felt like a tool of the patriarchy, but I can't keep getting phone calls from this (female) client about how my team member is being "rude" or "not helpful." (I still think spending a bit of time on politeness and carefully couching a "no" is worthwhile, and I'd like to think that I would give the same feedback to a man. But it's possible that the degree to which directness seemed like a problem would be less.)
We have to speak up about it when it happens, in the moment, especially when we are onlookers. Gotta give 'em the BAM!
Especially if they're "nice," "well-intentioned." They'd WANT to help, right???