The leaders of the local web dev union are real tough guys, I think they're in with the mafia or something. They tried to break my kneecaps when I wanted to leave the union and go freelance :(
Yay for Unions! They are great. "Right to Work" laws are a blight on society. Unions should be pushing for a three day work week. It is long past time for the ownership class to start sharing the productivity gains that labor and technology have facilitated in the last 30 years. Powerful unions would be a good tool for making that happen.
The question was, (paraphrased) "Why is there disdain for unions in technology circles?"
I think it is because in high tech whole industries rise and fall within a few years. This means the nature of the work changes very rapidly. The idea of 'organizing' for 'rights' in an industry that didn't exist three years ago, and may be obsolete five years from now, seems very challenging.
That's why I think there should be another venue for organizing for those rights, basically on behalf of everybody. To my mind, like social security, roads, etc. this should be handled by public institutions subject to democratic political pressures. That is kind of what we have now except that there really is no political organization effectively representing the long term economic interests of any but the wealthiest one percent of the population. It would be nice if there was a political party to take this on but both parties have been captured by the wealth at the top.
Unions are a good move, but they need to be more critical about the political establishment and more comprehensive in their goals. Lobbying for carbon extraction and export 'jobs' is an example of bad short-term thinking.
Not in Oregon though. Only in certain states. But if I was freelance again, I would definitely look into getting healthcare through them if they offered it here :(
I have a positive kneejerk reaction to unions, but then again I come from big union strongholds (Toledo/auto industry, Vegas/Teamster/culinary/hospitality/mob). They do good or bad but the alternative is like the free market or whatever, right? Yeah or even better an "equal playing field"
Yeah, I am still with DrJ. Better to establish "rights" outside of a specific work environment, to allow flexibility in an industry while still guarding the well-being of our populace (which allows them to work better).
But this conversation started in relation to unions and the tech industry, which needs to hire the best and fire whoever isn't keeping up in order to bring you magical pieces of glass that you can check your email on.
DR J has shared a theory about why tech people don't necessarily want to unionize themselves. But what i don't get is their weird anti-union/anti-labor-protection feelings for other sectors. Is it that it makes their suppliers more expensive? Suppliers meaning everything from physical products like iphone screens to "content" ie. music and film and art?
I don't really object to unions in other fields. I think organized labor in the education field is a good safeguard for the reasons YT and Wanda listed. While there does seem to be an indifference towards unions in tech, I think the opinions of individuals in tech on the issue of unions in general is varied, and you can't really generalize on it.
For example, it's "common knowledge" that it's hard to find talented developers and engineers. So, if you acquire those skills, you are generally able to land a decent job on your terms.
kdawg, which tech companies? Spotify? Pandora? Rdio? Napster?
I've worked in the Portland tech industry for 4 years now, and the ratio of libertarians to leftys seems to be on par with other sectors. Of course, this is Portland and not the Bay, but most programmers/developers I've encountered are of a leftish/environmentalist/human rights bent rather than laissez-faire libertarians.
Regarding tech being a meritocracy - I think there are massive systematic gender/diversity problems within our industry which certainly argue against it being a total meritocracy. However, if you're a talented developer living in Portland right now, you'd definitely be able to find well-paying work that suits you. There's a shit ton of openings and not enough people to fill them.
Although, honestly Alex & MZ I don't doubt your experience. It may indeed be principally a bay area thing. We're also just living in a era that's marked by unprecedented deregulation across the board.
I also wonder in a more abstract way, if I were faced with an abundance of available well-paying work in my chosen field, whether it might impact my perception of/sympathy toward people unable to find work in their chosen fields.
Depends on the field, I guess! My sympathy is more towards people obtaining necessities that our society is able to provide. I don't necessarily think that having your "dream job" is a right. I certainly did not dream of answering angry emails for a living when I was young, but it's tolerable and pays a decent wage and I am grateful for the work.
I do think that it benefits a society to unconditionally provide for the well-being and education of its members. You will obviously (IMO) have a more productive nation if people are physically healthy and able to obtain training and education relevant to our current needs. And I'm pretty sure we have the capital to provide that support if we spend less on crazy war machines and more on our people.
I think tech is rife with libertarian fantasies. Men, mostly, that believe they invented their wealth and social position without relying on anything that came before. They figure if they can do it anybody can.
They also refuse to support public institutions, except where they reinforce their authority, because they believe a bunch of bureaucrats don't know anything about their business. Unfortunately this is often borne out by frequently clueless and capricious legislation and litigation on digital matters.
My buddy works for google, and he doesn't like it that much. I went there with him last year for lunch, and I wasn't blown away either.
Regarding unions, I was a member of the Electrical Workers Union, and the Stagehand Union, and both experiences were, I'm sorry to say, 100% negative. In both cases, the unions created reactionary, distrustful, and combative atmospheres. Even in the best cases they got in the way.
For a lot of positions, I think unions are probably good, and still make sense. I do think that new thinking is required, however, the market has evolved too far, and unions just haven't kept up.
I get the feeling they thought they made up a cool pun and nobody googled it to see if it had been used before? The label's approach to IP issues is sort of zen...but not passive.
Big kids talk 6:30PST Tues tonight on the interwebs. "Legal and Illegal Distribution Over the Internet: Can we Find Common Solution(s)?" https://www.smpte.org/etia2013?utm_source=ETIA+Streaming+2&utm_campaign=ETIA&utm_medium=email SMPTE.org is the technical group for movie standards. They get sh*t done. Panel industry weighted. At Stanford. Free stream. No idea if it will be archived.
I occasionally run into Allen. I have no idea what Beats is up to. They did revive the headphones business at the pricy point. The intent of the note is if you are in PDX and interested in the topic, you can probably get some thoughts in person.
What's weird is: Beats actually was way ahead of the game in terms of artist relations. they had no free tier. they had done a pretty good job of reaching out to the independent label community (unlike spotify). This hire creates WAY more problems than it solves. People HATE that guy. (I don't, I just think he's super cynical and disingenuous.)
I'd pay $40-50 a month if a service had (nearly) everything. In the meantime, I'll pay $10 for a limited selection of songs that pays independent artists super poorly, but also pay to go to shows and buy records and stuff. I mostly only listen to rap and electronic music on Spotify anyway.
MZ, that is not that different than the argument made by the head of a major consumer electronics trade group in a 2012 op-ed (which complained that Obamacare encouraged musicians to continue being musicians because now they would be able to have health care)
Comments
The question was, (paraphrased) "Why is there disdain for unions in technology circles?"
I think it is because in high tech whole industries rise and fall within a few years. This means the nature of the work changes very rapidly. The idea of 'organizing' for 'rights' in an industry that didn't exist three years ago, and may be obsolete five years from now, seems very challenging.
That's why I think there should be another venue for organizing for those rights, basically on behalf of everybody. To my mind, like social security, roads, etc. this should be handled by public institutions subject to democratic political pressures. That is kind of what we have now except that there really is no political organization effectively representing the long term economic interests of any but the wealthiest one percent of the population. It would be nice if there was a political party to take this on but both parties have been captured by the wealth at the top.
Unions are a good move, but they need to be more critical about the political establishment and more comprehensive in their goals. Lobbying for carbon extraction and export 'jobs' is an example of bad short-term thinking.
http://www.freelancersunion.org
I've worked in the Portland tech industry for 4 years now, and the ratio of libertarians to leftys seems to be on par with other sectors. Of course, this is Portland and not the Bay, but most programmers/developers I've encountered are of a leftish/environmentalist/human rights bent rather than laissez-faire libertarians.
I also wonder in a more abstract way, if I were faced with an abundance of available well-paying work in my chosen field, whether it might impact my perception of/sympathy toward people unable to find work in their chosen fields.
I do think that it benefits a society to unconditionally provide for the well-being and education of its members. You will obviously (IMO) have a more productive nation if people are physically healthy and able to obtain training and education relevant to our current needs. And I'm pretty sure we have the capital to provide that support if we spend less on crazy war machines and more on our people.
They also refuse to support public institutions, except where they reinforce their authority, because they believe a bunch of bureaucrats don't know anything about their business. Unfortunately this is often borne out by frequently clueless and capricious legislation and litigation on digital matters.
I went there with him last year for lunch, and I wasn't blown away either.
Regarding unions, I was a member of the Electrical Workers Union, and the Stagehand Union, and both experiences were, I'm sorry to say, 100% negative. In both cases, the unions created reactionary, distrustful, and combative atmospheres. Even in the best cases they got in the way.
For a lot of positions, I think unions are probably good, and still make sense. I do think that new thinking is required, however, the market has evolved too far, and unions just haven't kept up.
http://www.dischordgame.com/
:(
"Legal and Illegal Distribution Over the Internet: Can we Find Common Solution(s)?"
https://www.smpte.org/etia2013?utm_source=ETIA+Streaming+2&utm_campaign=ETIA&utm_medium=email
SMPTE.org is the technical group for movie standards. They get sh*t done. Panel industry weighted. At Stanford. Free stream. No idea if it will be archived.
Last night I was a speaker at this thing http://pitchfork.com/news/54131-watch-david-byrne-cover-biz-markies-just-a-friend/
Trip on that.