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We are speaking bilaterally here, you can drop the mask and open up. No performance art required since there is no more audience.
I stand by my statement that attempts to address institutional racism in the US are not useful in the context of winning a national political campaign. My hypothesis is that change comes after the political realism used to achieve office, as an example I would offer JFK's approach to the Civil Rights Act. You are trying to govern before you win the war.
"You said white people have it worse than minorities."
You are apparently used to internet-style debates where you can simply drop a personal attack smoke bomb and vanish, but I'm still waiting for you to address this claim in substance or style.December 2016-
Loose_ThreadThis is not a personal attack smoke bomb; it's paraphrasing you.
> Another angle; white privilege means that white people got those no-college
required blue collar jobs more than minorities, so when the economy changed
white people were adversely affected more than minorities.
I don't know what your motivation is in continuing to engage me on this same issue. Your position, which you perhaps believe I don't fully understand, is morally appalling to me. I understand your thought process; I can see, due to my own experience and the people I've known, that you are only taking your own experience into account. So, you're correct, but you rely on a limited dataset. -
Loose_ThreadI can only guess that I seem to you like a very rude person. But you are revealing attitudes that are part and parcel of racism in the US. You are a white man, educated and career-oriented, and you are telling me that "realism" precludes the goals of people who are not like you. What I have to risk is so much more than you have to risk. I really wish you could understand how offensive these underlying assumptions are to me, because I think you see me as unreasonable.
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Loose_Thread> attempts to address institutional racism in the US are not useful in the context of winning a national political campaign
What does that even look like, exactly? How would that play out? Does it mean a campaigning president shouldn't discuss race and gender disparities in wages? During a panel discussion, does it mean a POC should avoid any mention of race? If a candidate was asked for their opinion on BLM, should they say no comment? -
ManInTheIvoryTowerNow we are getting somewhere! Questions! Information to be exchanged! I love political discussions, I hope you understand I really am trying to understand where you are coming from. Since I haven't demanded felatio or called you a racist twerp I'm still claiming the high ground.
So the quote you are throwing back in my face is quite different than your creative "paraphrasing". It is my attempt to explain WHY white people might be pissed other than "we hate the browns". Part of institutional racism is that the "haves" are more white than the "have nots" so when the "haves" lose out you end up with more white people pissed. That's all. IIRC, it was part of a discussion on why we can or can't chalk up the entire 2016 national election results to a racist America.
And while "no comment" is not going to work, a (left leaning, anyway) candidate should most definitely use care when discussing subjects like BLM. For example: At first glance a response to BLM like "all lives matter" makes sense to a certain segment who has grown up in Fargo or Duluth. So a pol could make the argument that when you are at a breast cancer event you don't show up with a sign that says "MS is the real threat!" and talk about how the urban experience of social housing and aggressive policing is a valid issue. (That is a poor paraphrasing of a stand-up routine I saw a while back but hopefully you get my point) -
Loose_ThreadI'm so confused. You are acknowledging institutional racism... but then you seem to say "that is why they are not racist." Like because they "lost more" (debatable), because of racism, racism isn't a factor? Maybe you are assuming that racism is about intention?
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> @FaceTweetPlus: you said that white people have it worse than minorities
I'd love to see your footnotes for that. Even out of context that would be quite the mental gymnastics routine, but would enjoy watching you attempt to stick the landing. However don't let it distract you from this amazing self-righteousness streak you are on.
> and that addressing racism is a distraction from progressivism.
No, a distraction from earning votes and winning elections. Which used to be the topic of discussion before you hijacked it with Holy Proclamations and personal insults.
> You god damn, smug racist twerp. You throw "poor working class whites from the rust belt"...
I think you are confusing the (now hopefully discounted) political terminology of "coalition building" and "special interest politics" with my own personal belief system. But I tire of ascribing the best possible scenario to your warped mindset so I will just assume you have poor reading comprehension and move on.December 2016-
Loose_ThreadHere you go, assbutt!
> Another angle; white privilege means that white people got those no-college
required blue collar jobs more than minorities, so when the economy changed
white people were adversely affected more than minorities.
I know exactly what you meant by that, but it's a disgusting claim to make. -
Loose_ThreadI suppose I could have just left it at "addressing racism is a distraction."
> Two things; racism is hard, we can't fix it in the next couple of election cycles so I
have a tendency to focus on where I think progressives can move the needle
politically. And I think we on the left are making a huge mistake if our primary
takeaway is that this election was a whitelash, or a wave of support for Trump's
racist remarks.
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Hello LT, I was there and you looked familiar, but I could not suss from where. I prob will be in the suburbs for another talk tonight on electronic ink (what the Kindle uses) but may try to catch the end of the talk. Would live to see the replay if it's available. I'm on the fringes of the UH world but connected in the art world where I'm known at portlandorusnow.blogspot.com. Best - RobSeptember 2012 -
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