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In this Discussion
- 1234 January 2012
- Clever_girl January 2012
- Death December 2011
- distant_shoe January 2012
- ed_chigliak December 2011
- flossy_log_lady January 2012
- freddy December 2011
- kdawg January 2012
- Leland January 2012
- lml__0_0__lml December 2011
- Loose_Thread January 2012
- Matthew January 2012
- MirandaJuly January 2012
- swamp_knobbler_mahan January 2012
- the_owls January 2012
- ThickeningAgent January 2012
- UncleBoatShoes2011 December 2011
- YoursTruly January 2012
New Year's Resolution: KICK MY AMAZON HABIT
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/13/opinion/amazons-jungle-logic.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1
Insane!!!!!!!
“Scorched-earth capitalism” is how Dennis described it. “They don’t win unless they destroy their competition and then rub their noses in it.” Andre was outraged by Amazon’s attempt to turn its customers into “Droid-packing” spies. Like Dennis, he saw the move as an unsubtle attempt to monopolize the market, the effect of which would ultimately be to “further devalue, as a cultural and human necessity, the book” itself.
“There is no point in fighting them or explaining to them that we should be able to coexist civilly in the marketplace,” she wrote me. “I don’t think they care. I do think it’s worthwhile explaining to customers that the lowest price point does not always represent the best deal. If you like going to a bookstore then it’s up to you to support it. If you like seeing the people in your community employed, if you think your city needs a tax base, if you want to buy books from a person who reads, don’t use Amazon.”
Insane!!!!!!!
“Scorched-earth capitalism” is how Dennis described it. “They don’t win unless they destroy their competition and then rub their noses in it.” Andre was outraged by Amazon’s attempt to turn its customers into “Droid-packing” spies. Like Dennis, he saw the move as an unsubtle attempt to monopolize the market, the effect of which would ultimately be to “further devalue, as a cultural and human necessity, the book” itself.
“There is no point in fighting them or explaining to them that we should be able to coexist civilly in the marketplace,” she wrote me. “I don’t think they care. I do think it’s worthwhile explaining to customers that the lowest price point does not always represent the best deal. If you like going to a bookstore then it’s up to you to support it. If you like seeing the people in your community employed, if you think your city needs a tax base, if you want to buy books from a person who reads, don’t use Amazon.”
Comments
"'What harm could one plastic bottle do?' wonder 5,000,000 people"
This app/technology existed before Amazon and the idea of "We'll match or beat any competitors offer!" is a long running sales technique.
To impose intent on Amazon's moves (They are evil! They want to destroy small business!") beyond "Amazon wants to sell things" is just propaganda. Yes, book stores are nice, but book stores were fucked before Amazon when everyone was complaining about how Borders and Barnes & Nobles was destroying them.
I would even argue that the true point of Amazon's new scan and price tool is less about books because let's be honest, AMAZON OWNS THE BOOKS ALREADY! They want you to buy your Target goods, Best Buy goods, and other things from them.
Also, much like any giant company, you can't escape Amazon. With their S2 service they have become an essential backbone to how the internet works.
Being from Alaska I wish I would have had Amazon when I grew up. We're spoiled being in Portland or metro areas that actually have book stores and independent culture but there is a lot of America that doesn't have those things.
And finally... people should be upset, because I'm sure Bezos reads the New York Times and is aware he pissed off a lot of people and we'll see if he's more careful in the future. Let's not be reactionary and talk of banning Amazon from our lives. Let's instead have a reasonable response, send them a letter or email explaining in rational and calm terms why we feel like they made a mistake, and move on with our lives.
Re: the bookseller in the article who says, "If you let me, I’ll get to know you through your reading life and strive to find books that resonate with you" -- how many of us really want a personal literary guide, these days, other than our friends/teachers/family?
The other day we went to Powell's so I could buy a big stack of fiction. Gary got so bored while I was shopping that he idly started talking to one of the "information" workers in the literature section. He was telling her about a book he'd seen years earlier and kept meaning to buy. The thing was, he couldn't remember the title, the author, or anything about the book, except that it had experimental type-setting.
This led to literally a 20 minute interaction involving that information lady, who then called in another information dude, and they were doing crazy internet and catalogue searches that we didn't even understand--we're in academia and we didn't even know what they were doing! The most elaborate limited searches using both internet and in-house databases. The lady kept saying "is it this book? Hmmm no, that came out too recently...what about this book?" Finally the dude was like "I think I found it," and then walked to a shelf and pulled out a book, and Gary goes "THAT'S IT!!!!!" Dude was like "no problem."
This is what I think of as an old-school bookstore experience. Another time I was in the now-defunct famous old bookstore by my house in LA when a lady came in and went up to the guy working and was like "I want to read a novel that's like Silence of the Lambs but I've already read Silence of the Lambs," and the guy took her on a crazy jaunt through the stacks, discussing books with her, telling her about plots and styles, pulling books down and showing them to her and then asking her more questions, until they zeroed in on the perfect book. I wish I could remember what it was.
Then I went up to him and said "I need a book of German poetry that has the german on one page and the English translation on the facing page" and he was like "oh I know right where one is" and took me right to it. It was Goethe and I still have it.
I think this is what that lady is talking about, when she says things like "personalized experience."
Recently I bought a textbook on Amazon and tried and tried to figure out if it came with the accompanying CDs. The seller said he didn't know. Finally I just bought it, because I was desperate and there wasn't a copy anywhere in all of Portland somehow. When it arrived it turned out it was ONLY the CDs.
Obviously I love Amazon and have benefited from it, but that kind of experience wouldn't have happened in a real bookstore. I think I feel what the lady in the article is saying, about why does it have to be "scorched-earth capitalism?" Why can't amazon do its thing, and bookstores do theirs, and everybody makes a living?
Capitalism becomes its own reason. You try to destroy all competitors because that is just how the system works. The idea of all these jackasses walking around in some nice bookstore gloating over their iPhones because Amazon promises to give them a book for cheaper than the bookstore...that is so gross to me. Sure, people have always comparison-shopped---that's also part of capitalism---but something about it being encouraged by this mega mega mega corporate entity.....I mean, we're all supposed to be upset that Wal-Mart literally destroyed the American small town. This is the same thing, just with books, bookstores, people who love books and whose livelihood surrounds books because of that love.
I don't know. It is a sticky wicket for sure--I know I'll never stop using Amazon completely, and I see all the ways it is awesome, obviously. But I am also uncomfortable with arguments like "you can't escape Amazon." Like, "oh, I can't fix the animal industry so I guess I'll just eat at McDonalds every day." Is that really the way I want to make choices as a consumer...?
Not to mention that going into a store with no intent of ever buying anything is also gross. This isn't comparison shopping where you see if a bookstore has better prices than Amazon. This is a guaranteed 5 dollars off if you spy for Amazon.
My dad takes it even further, when we went to Istanbul in 2006 it was revealed he had never used an ATM card (didn't know you had to call and activate it!), we were all shocked, he said "Why do I need a card? I go to the bank once a week and see my girl there."
I feel these interactions with people who are not your friends or work colleagues are so important for the fabric of American society. I love the internet but Amazon, Netflix etc have never recommended things I actually want, no matter how strong their algorithms.
1. I love not looking at a menu in a restaurant, but rather to ask the waiter for their recommendation.
2. People give tips for everything in Las Vegas. I used to get tipped for helping people in the library. People tip their cashier. It builds a relationship.... something the internet can not do.
"I wish people understood that by buying new books at a deep discount they are pushing us towards a future that consists solely of self-published 99 cent ebooks. If you know anyone who edits, copyedits, designs, draws, writes or otherwise publishes books, you should think twice before paying the lowest price you can for their labor. Even if you don’t, you should think twice if you believe that edited, published books should continue to exist."
Plus their warehouses are horrifying!
Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos has taken the same rate of salary for the last 10 years: a very modest sum of about $80K.
The bulk of his compensation (besides the 21% stake he holds in the company) is the cost of providing for his personal security, which is billed to the company.
In 2009 his security cost Amazon $1.7 million, up from the 2008 tab of $1.2 million.
That's a lot of rent-a-cop!
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2011603406_amazon15.html
But I still think the Amazon discount is more of a bad PR move than anything insane and evil.
"Why can't amazon do its thing, and bookstores do theirs, and everybody makes a living?" - because the cost of owning/running a bookstore exceeds the profit they make from the lovers of literary culture. So you either get the literary lovers to rally around supporting bookstores, or you come up with creative ways to change the system/fund "culture." .001% of every Amazon book purchase goes to funding lit readings and creative writing classes in small communities? That would be a great PR move for Amazon, right?
I can't believe that, about Bezos's security detail/yearly salary. WTF?!
I'm gonna go to Powells today
PHEW
Ad realm is a little cooler than PR realm. PR realm is just like talking to your connections at different magazines and morning TV shows all day every day, arranging interviews for your spokespeople, ordering keychains with the company logo and shit like that. It's much more of a "I like to be on the phone all the time" kind of person, which leaves less time for introspection and thinking up cool stuff.
It is already the most I can do to get to New Seasons once a week, and there are tons of things they don't carry. If I have to wait until I have time to bike/bus all around the damn city buying batteries/socks/nonstick skillet because I ruined my old one/giant bag of cat food/present for my nephew/mothballs etc. I would a) go crazy, and b) not get things done for like 3 months.
I don't know, guys. I think I'm still going to buy from Amazon.
It's amazing to observe how I started this conversation admitting I was deeply conflicted, but in the process of you jumping in and telling me how I'm living my life wrong, I suddenly find myself pretty defensive. For the record, that's turning out not to be a very effective way to motivate people to change their behavior.
I don't even think he's being serious/sincere or anything, but he has trouble approaching humanity on the internet like the kind on UHX.
freddy = making the world better for all kinds of people
bookhouseboyP = doing it for the lulz
i read that, and it was pretty rude!
because i hardly know who anyone's handle is anymore i feel as comfortable saying that as bookhouse did telling us all to get on our bikes on off amazon and shove it...
the internet/this message board is only a small glimpse into a person's actual life, and we all make choices every day about how and where we consume. NO ONE IS PERFECT!
I mean, my god bookhouse, you WENT TO TARGET OMGGGG!!!
I really like and respect freddy.
Deleting all your posts is such a lame drama move. Such an f-you to all the discussions you participated in, and all the people who participated in them.
It's not fair to compare Amazon to Powell's... you have to imagine the desolate small town that was super excited to get Barnes and Noble. Not that the ends justify the means, but Amazon does much more for book lovers than any other company ever.
Also, I really doubt that Amazon's intended target is books with the price comparison feature. And I doubt they are even aware of the small local bookseller, much less trying to declare war on them. They are going after the big box retailers.
I love service from a human, but I'm more optimistic about Amazon than almost any other big company. If I thought they were really against the small bookstore I'd join you in quitting them, but I don't believe that.
but then i also hate both paying for things online (i am old and naturally suspicious of any website asking for my credit card #) but more importantly i don't like waiting for things to come in the mail. so often i'll then go and buy said item at a local store (like powells, pro-photo, the mac store, etc) - then i like the sales people, when i know exactly what i want and they are there to re-affirm my decision. i'll generally pay a few more bucks at powell's or pro-photo simply for the assurance of holding the product in my hands before making that final decision of whether to buy it- and then being able to take it home immediately.
I have also had great help in the trying-on phase, with clothes. "Honey those are too baggy" or whatever. These are professionals! They are better at clothes than me!
I feel like this kind of thing happens to me all the time. "What would you buy if you had to buy your weird sister-in-law's mother a christmas present?" etc.
However I also REALLY LOVE doing online research for things I'm thinking of buying. I really enjoy that process, reading reviews, comparing, etc.
Online shopping is totally amazing, but it's undoubtedly contributing to the ruination of the small brick-and-mortar business in America. My parents' town is just filled with long-term businesses shutting down right and left, because why would you go to Ray's outdoor gear store for socks when you can get them for a nickel on ebay or amazon? And that does suck. But I don't have the answers for fixing it, because online shopping is awesome and is also obviously the future.
This seems incredibly naive to me. Anyone else?
I would guess that less than 15% of their business is done on books at this point.
THEY SELL EVERYTHING
I only buy used books on Amazon when they are so old and dumb they cost $.99 or when there is a used copy of a fancy art book I can get for half price of a million $$.
I do like online shopping for things that are hard to find or would involve going to a mall in Beaverton, is this bad? I don't want to crush small businesses!
GOOD JOB!
http://www.amazon.com/Search-Jobs-Careers/b?ie=UTF8&node=239362011
Amazon's high rate seems like an unfair, monopolistic, business practice. I don't know why they haven't been sued for anti-trust violations.
I think it's probably true that the larger publishers are happy to give up a big percentage in exchange for not dealing with the logistical headache of making all their books appear for no extra cost on their customer's doorstep. I can see how a smaller publisher needs to keep more of that money as they don't have the volume to back it up, but then they probably shouldn't be on Amazon or in Barnes & Nobles or Borders or whatever.
Doesn't some of the blame lie with the publishers themselves for agreeing to terms that are not sustainable? (<- spoken like a true Republican.)