When I was in Denver I read the New York Times Magazine’s “Year in Ideas.” The idea that I keep thinking about is the one where they conducted a study about how talking shit together makes people friends. Basically they showed people a video of a man and a woman having an argument, and asked them to answer questions about their impressions of the characters. Then they offered to introduce them to people who shared either their negative or positive impressions of the the characters. Almost all of the participants were more interested in meeting people who disliked the same characters that they did. And then they went on to explain that in general people feel more connected with friends who share their negative opinions of mutual acquaintances. Talking Shit! It brings people together!
It’s funny because it’s true. I think back to any job, any class and I can pretty much identify the scapegoat- the weird dude that bugged everyone. Sometimes I was that weird dude. Singling that person out meant that everyone else got a little closer. It’s weird that people bond over that, rather than bonding because we all like this one really cool dude. Although I guess that happens too, like with Bobby Kennedy, but it’s rarer.
I can distinctly remember my first shit-talking sessions with almost all of my close friends. Over the internet with Allison Halter before we’d ever met each other or knew anything about each other’s lives. In the office with Julie, forced to whisper so that kids and colleagues and parents wouldn’t hear. It’s like you can’t trust fully someone until you’ve shared some dirt. I have friendships that are based entirely on talking shit.
I don’t think it’s bad. It’s not really harmful or malicious. I can complain about a coworker that the friends I’m with will never meet, and then be less annoyed by her the next day. I don’t talk shit about my friends- I’m fiercely loyal to everyone I love. But I can go on for hours about bad drivers, stupid talk show hosts, jerks from high school, or snooty waiters. And afterwards I feel great!
So basically we’re all assholes. Science proves it and the New York TImes makes it legit. Thank god. Because I fucking hate scientists and newspapers, don’t you?
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what an outrageous entry. i read somewhere that if you want to instantly bond with a person/or group of people find a common enemy. but where does that go from there?
it just shows that these people are in frickin’ denial about their own powerlessness and they could go to extensive lengths in possibly harming an innocent being. don’t join the mob. when confronted by your own weaknesses focus on something or someone you admire instead. Spread the Love.
Willow, you’ve got so much to give too! that’s why i read you.
I don’t look at talking to your friends about something that’s bugging you (a bad driver, a co-worker that they will most likely never meet) as harming an innocent being. I think that it can make you less annoyed in the long run, and we’re better off venting in a healthy way than repressing our anger. I’m all about spreading the love, but I will never deny myself the joy of a totally healthy shit-talking session.
Willow, I’m so glad you’re writing more, I really enjoy Perfect Heart!
I called my brother New Year’s Day to complain about something and afterwards told him that my resolution was going to be to stop talking shit. His reply? “I wouldn’t do that if I were you, you might end up with no friends.” When I questioned his remark he told me about that exact article. Needless to say, I quickly changed my resolution to the ever so popular eat healthy/get in shape and continued on with my shit talking.
I fully agree with the article. Like you said, when I look back at how I initially formed friendships with people at work, in class or on line to buy something it seems that they all have a common ground – trash talking. How else would I have known to call my boss “ringmaster.”
I think if you have an open mind and heart, shit-talking is good for the soul (ugh, I just used “heart” and “soul” in a sentence together). Like you said, you can vent about someone and then feel better towards that person later, especially if it’s not someone you really loathe. Additionally, there’s always the opportunity to rib the person about it later if you become closer friends, or take yourself to task for judging someone too soon.
I know they say that sometimes what bugs us most in other people are the qualities that we recognize in ourself. So I wonder if bonding over peeves is really connecting over similarities in a weird way.
if you mean “talking shit” is to analyze a situation that is fine and healthy esp. with a sense of humor…but beware of spreading ridicule.
liz i think is right—when we see our own illusions too then we are bonding.
this is a very important topic and i commend willow for bravely posting it and making us chew on it. it is an emotional topic especially if someone is the butt of other’s jokes. actually, if you become the butt of other’s jokes how should you respond?
Yeah, even though I was a little flippant in this entry, I do draw a distinction between venting and attacking. I spent all weekend “talking shit” about the parents that are giving me a hard time at school right now, but really I was just feeling hurt and insecure and needed to work it through. When the mom came in to volunteer this week I was better able to plaster on a smile and make small talk because I’d talked through all of my hard feelings with my friends. IF I hadn’t I probably would have been defensive and distant with this mom, which would have made everything worse.
Also, I don’t know the best response if you find yourself at the butt of jokes. I guess confronting the jokesters is the best course of action, even though it’s also the scariest. Making your feelings, your “self” known to them will make it harder for them to see you as a joke. Easier said than done, but I really think it’s the only way.
Also, for everyone’s information, Liz used to talk tons of shit about me in high school before we were friends (she thought I was a phony). I won her over though and now she is one of my dearest friends. Funny how that works, sometimes.
“I have friendships that are based entirely on talking shit.”
That’s totally me, right? I hope so. BTDubs, I totally stole Liz and J’s bikes. Fatties need to walk.
Fuckin’ Tom! I knew it was you.
hey all of you insecure shit talkers. I have one thing to say get fucked. Make that more shit to say. You have nothing better going on in your lives so you have to find a perfectly innocent out cast to make your conversation go well or to bond if you will to get those sickening goose bumbs because you feel cool. OH NO WE CANT SAY ANYTHING BAD OUR SELVES! ITs sick that people bond this way. I have never really started the shit talking because i know it hurts. I have been apart of plenty of conversations with shit talking but lose intrest instantly if it goes on to long. My boss does this about me everyday i come to work. ITS NOT A POSITIVE THING EITHER IT MAKES ME UNCOMFORTABLE IN MY OWN SKIN. IT A SHAME. JUST TO LET YOU KNOW THAT I AM A BEAUTIFUL GIRL SO THAT PROBABLY HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT. HEY ALL OF YOU INSECURE SHIT TALKERS GET FUCKED AND YOU BASICALLY SUCK AT LIFE BECAUSE YOU ARE MORE INTRESTED IN SOMEONE ELSES. GO KILL YOURSELF. AND IT IS HARMFUL. I HATE ALL SHIT TALKERS.
one more thing i for got to say to all retarded shit talkers with no lives. WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND. IF YOU THINK THIS IS GETTING YOU FAR UP THE SOCIAL LADDER THINK AGAIN BECUASE MOST LIKEY WHEN YOU TURN YOUR UGLY BACK YOUR GETTING TALKED ABOUT. ITS A VICIOUS LIFE LONG CYLCE OF SHIT TALKING SO TRY TO BE MORE RESPECTFUL OF OTHER PEOPLE WHO DONT ALWAYS APPRECIATE IT. BECAUSE POEPLE LIKE ME DESERVE THE WORLD YOU ON THE OTHER HAND DO NOT. I DONT WISH TO VISIT THIS SITE AGAIN SO DO NOT TRY AND CONTACT ME IF YOU FEEL THREATEND FOR YOUR EVIL NO GOOD GOD DAMN EVIL TALKING SHIT DEEDS. I KNOW I MADE POINT CLEAR SO HAVE ROTTEN LUCK THROUGH THE REST OF YOUR SHIT TALKING DAYS. GET OVER YOUR SELVES.